When actress Katie Lowes decided to launch a podcast in 2018, her goal was simple, if necessary: offer a real, honest look at all the ups, downs, and loop de loops of new motherhood through the lens of her own experience, after Lowes and her husband, Adam Shapiro, welcomed their first child, son Albee, in October 2017.
The result, Katie's Crib — which premiered with Shondaland in April 2018 — has found Scandal alum Lowes sitting down with both celebs (Kristen Bell, Whitney Port, Jamie-Lynn Sigler) and experts (Julie Lythcott-Haims, author of How to Raise an Adult: Break Free of the Overparenting Trap and Prepare Your Kid for Success; Dr. Carolyn Alexander, a reproductive endocrinologist and fertility specialist) alike to discuss, as Lowes has put it, "the unexpected joys, pains, foibles, and hilarity" that comes with being a mom.
"What I hope Katie’s Crib does is inform people," Lowes says, as the podcast approaches the premiere of its third season, which debuts under Shondaland Audio, Shondaland's new partnership with iHeartMedia, on May 21.
"I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had guests on where it took them ten years and eight million doctors to figure out that something was off in their bodies. Or it took them so long to get pregnant because they don’t know when they ovulate or what their cycle is. Women who go to their OB once a year and are just like 'Okay, quick — let’s get this over with!' [Challenges] happen because many women are not taught about these things, because it’s all shameful for some reason. We have to get over it and we really need to get educated on who we are and what we want."
It's that kind of candor that has made Katie's Crib resonate with its audience: it's regularly one of the most listened to podcasts in Apple's Kids & Family podcast category — it hit number one last year with an episode featuring Pretty Little Liars actress Troian Bellisario — and it was a 2019 Webby honoree in Podcasts: Kids & Family.
As Lowes approaches the outset of her third season, examining parental challenges, perhaps, couldn't be more topical. With parents facing unprecedented challenges in everything from educating their children to managing upticks in child and teen anxiety during the coronavirus pandemic, Lowes is grateful to be able to offer both a voice and safe space to think about the impact of motherhood, before, during, and after COVID-19.
"It is a crazy time," Lowes acknowledges. "I feel so grateful to have the podcast. I mean, selfishly, because it makes me feel a) like I have purpose — besides being the mother and wife and housekeeper and nanny and cook and personal assistant and dog walker that I am right now — and b) it really is so helpful to have this sense of community right now, which has always been the Katie’s Crib goal."
Before Lowes kicks off her next season of Katie's Crib — which features Lowes going deep with actress America Ferrera before the birth of her second child, and more episodes with guests like Gabrielle Union, Danielle Brooks, and experts breaking down topics like postpartum depression and post-baby intimacy — she sat down with Shondaland to talk about podcasting during a pandemic, what to expect from the new season, and what she hopes men can learn from Katie's Crib.
SETH PLATTNER: It must be great that you have this project, the podcast, to kind of keep you busy in the time of COVID-19. So many people in the film and TV industry are facing what could really be a super difficult road ahead, especially when you think about what's happening in the theater community.
KATIE LOWES: Oh my gosh – it's so terrible. I’m actually wearing my Waitress t-shirt right now. My husband and I made our Broadway debut in Waitress. Also one of the original cast members, Nick Cordero, I don’t know if you’ve heard his story but he’s a friend of friends and it’s just like watching the most horrifying, saddest, toughest road to go down.
So when people feel a little lenient — ya know,"Well, can we just come into your front yard?" — I’m like no. Nah-uh. We can’t. We’ve been good thus far.
SP: Right. Now is not the time to back down from being safe.
KL: I think that's something that is so great about the podcast world, especially right now. You can do it in isolation and, more importantly, it still makes you feel like you’re not by yourself. And I just think that’s sort of what Katie’s Crib has done from the ground up for moms all over the country who have to deal with some pretty hefty swings and emotions and ups and downs similar to like being quarantined for coronavirus.
So, having these Katie's Crib interviews, it’s just really nice to get on with other moms and be like “How are you? Are you okay?” — and a lot of moms aren’t.
SP: Is that the first thing you ask, when you start the interview: “All right, mom check in.”
KL: 100 percent. 100.
SP: What’s the pervading sentiment between you and other moms right now?
KL: It’s a lot of ups and downs. A lot of good days and bad days. And I think that’s for everyone. But I also think there’s this concern about your children feeling the stress in the ethos. And I think, for better or for worse, moms — who are already the toughest, strongest people I’ve ever come in contact with — are truly putting something bigger ahead of anything else in our own personal lives. Collectively, the moms sort of know they have to keep it together for their kids. Personally, there are a lot of days where, sure, I’d like to be depressed and not get out of bed and watch the news all day and keep checking the stats of how many people died today, but I know it’s a better choice for my son for me not to do that.
SP: How do you stay motivated? What is keeping you positive right now?
KL: It’s a good thing kids can be little shits. At 6:30 am, that scream is coming and thank God for things like coffee and waffles and syrup or whatever the hell vice you need at the moment.
Truthfully, though, I've found the mom community on social media to be super helpful. Again, I hope Katie’s Crib is going to provide that for a lot of other mothers. I've found watching Glennon Doyle do a 15-minute Instagram about how there’s no such thing as limiting TV time in quarantine helpful. Pamela Paul, who’s a guest we have on this season, she works at The New York Times and she wrote this book How to Raise a Reader but she also wrote this beautiful article about how boredom is so important for kids. So I have found that the motherhood community is really stepping up to support moms in their choices. You can look at a million Instagrams about art projects. That’s not for me right now. I don’t want to clean that up. There’s a lot of moms with toddlers that are using the time to potty train right now because we’re home and we’re all near toilets. And I keep going to my husband asking “Do you think we should do it?” and he says “Katie, if you think I’m adding one more stressful thing to this quarantine period where I’m going to clean up my kid’s dumps from the floor, you are sorely mistaken.”
But it’s hard. I’ve never said in my two and a half years that I’ve had my son that I wished for the past — until this quarantine. This is the first time I’ve ever said to my husband “Why didn't this happen four years ago when we didn’t have a kid?” I would love to watch all these films! I should be watching to better myself as an actor, you know? But the grass is always greener!
SP: Totally. Coming into this season for the podcast, you must have some idea of where you wanted it to go. And, obviously, that’s probably shifted a little bit given what’s going on. So, what did you want season three to be and how has it changed?
KL: Well, as I started recording season three, I was shooting the next Shonda Rhimes' show, Inventing Anna, in New York so I had a lot of access to experts. So, selfishly, what you’ll hear a lot about on Katie’s Crib is just me picking the author’s brain. I’m super obsessed with people with whom I’m like, "How did you do that? You’re the total opposite of me." And asking questions like: How do I raise a good human? How do I raise a loving and respectful boy in this environment? Questions like that. Like, I wanted to talk to a sex therapist about my sex life, so that’s who I have on. New York gave me access to that.
Then once the pandemic hit it became all about friendship and mothers who I’m obsessed with who I might know personally, but who might have different values than my own. Like Shay Mitchell — she was someone I've wanted to have on for a long time. I don’t know her personally, but I’ve known through friends of friends that she’s the chilliest mom ever, which is basically my polar opposite. I was like, "I need to talk to that chill person because maybe through osmosis of Katie’s Crib she’s going to help me chill the f--k out."
SP: And did she?
KL: Yes! Or like Danielle Brooks. I’ve met her a few times and, when you meet her, her joie de vivre, her passion, her joyfulness, and hope is electric. It’s who she is. And I was like, "I gotta talk to her. I need her. I need her help. I’m feeling real down." But, interestingly, her episode is actually the opposite. She’s this incredible, hopeful, glass-half-full person, but her birth story and her struggle after the baby was darker than I had expected. So her story is a lot more about transformation and growth. So, I’ve been leading this season with a lot more about overcoming personal stuff. That's just where it turned. Which I think speaks exactly to the coronavirus situation.
SP: You brought up something that I wanted to ask you about: in this the era we live in, trying to raise a respectful, responsible boy who respects women – I think that is one thing that responsible mothers have to think about these days. How do you even begin to approach that? You’re having to think about it now at such a young age.
KL: Oh, I’m obsessed with it. When I found out I was having a boy, I emailed Shonda and I was bawling. I wanted a girl so bad — I was so ready for the “Future is Female” onesie, to be at my Women’s March wearing my baby on my chest. But, no, that was not my story. But, you know, in talking about it with Shonda and friends, you do have such a responsibility with boys. I mean for any kid, sure, but there’s such a responsibility to, in this environment, start to understand how at an early age we can really help boys love and respect girls and women, see their mothers being treated in a loving and respectful way, and also treat themselves like a loving and respectful person. That translates through their entire life.
SP: In doing an episode about this, what have you learned is the first step in that? Is it that you give them a Barbie instead of a truck?
KP: With my son, I like when he takes the lead. So, I would have him in little classes, when he was one or so, and he had baby dolls that were all different colors. It was very important to me that he had dolls and we could dress them or feed them to learn compassion and empathy. Well, he didn’t want that. He is just obsessed with excavators, cement mixers, and 18-wheelers. Meanwhile, I’ve never shown him a truck. He just took that on himself. He’s out on the street freaking out every time the garbage truck goes by! I became a mom that would go to the LA sanitation department parties just so he could ride around in garbage trucks with garbage men.
I do think that having that stuff around is very important, but I also think it’s so much about children is modeling. It's what they see that effects them so much when they’re older. It's so much better now, but when they turn on the TV and don't see women in positions of power — that all gets in there. But I’m very lucky that my household is pretty with it. But I’m dying to have this guest, Al Vernacchio. He’s a sex educator which isn’t really where I’m at yet with my son, but he talks about how to speak to boys who are 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 – getting into real conversations about consent and our bodies and things like that. I could have five episodes of Katie’s Crib on that.
SP: It seems like you've really leaned into the educational aspect of your podcast.
KP: If there’s anything I can do to help, ya know? I also think the biggest thing — which is kind of Katie’s Crib motto, is that people don’t talk about this stuff. And that’s our thing – we’re really tired, let’s really talk about it. What are you afraid of? Let's talk about it. What are you ashamed about? Let's talk about it. You don’t talk to your son about sex? Guess what – you’re going to have issues. You can’t do that. It’s sort of breaking out all of those very old school ways that are, I’ll tell you, here and now. Women still feel embarrassed and ashamed when they’re not perfect. Or when they’re not loving motherhood or when they’re not doing their best. That stuff runs deep.
SP: Do you get that in your podcast? Does that come out a lot?
KP: Every episode. Every episode. Every woman that had a miscarriage? It was her fault. I did something wrong. My body is a failure. I’m a failure. Every single time a birth went the wrong way? They think they are weak. They’re a failure. Gabrielle Union’s episode – she has a type of endometriosis and the first thing you think is “I can’t bear children. I’m less than. I’m not enough of a woman.” But that moves all the way into motherhood. Your kid isn’t the best at this or your kid had a thing? There was a year where my kid was a big hitter. He was the one on the playground hitting people and the failure you feel — even though he's one and doesn't even know what he's doing! Let me tell you, my social approval and need to be liked has never been more challenged. But you have to find a strength that really quiets all of the insecurities. I get that from Katie’s Crib and relating to other moms.
SP: Obviously, your podcast really speaks to the female experience and what women go through. But, do you ever think in the back of your mind, "I want men to listen to this. I want men to learn from this."
KP: It’s actually kind of hilarious you ask that. There’s always a dude engineer in the sound recording studios [for the podcast]. They're always so grateful to get to listen. Like on the breastfeeding episode or sex therapy — they always learn so much and always tell me men should be listening to this. Like, I’ve had maybe seven to ten different super dude-like engineers and they have all said that. My husband has been on the podcast, but I make my him listen to certain episodes. How to Raise a Reader? My husband’s not a reader, so, yeah, you gotta listen to that episode. The sex therapy one, where the therapist talks about sex after having a baby? You have to listen to that episode. You've got to. It can always be very, very helpful.
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